It was a good 15 or 20 years before anyone at Rand would be in the same room with me. They didn't want the question raised 'What's your relationship with Daniel Ellsberg?' And not one of them wrote me a letter because they didn't want a letter of theirs to show up in my trash – which the FBI had been going through.
Growing up training I use to get up so early I would wave to the garbage men going by. So I had this relationship with Blue Collar America and I really liked it. I felt that lots of those people looked forward to me winning.
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A conversation goes sometimes into personal things and that's nicer. You look to each other and you have a different picture you get into a relationship.
